Who needs discipline? Who gives discipline?

[Jamie]

This chapter also brings to mind Paul’s instructions in I Cor 5 to expel the immoral brother and of Peter’s prophetic judgment of Ananias and Sapphira in Acts 5.
There is such a fine line here to be drawn on this topic because this degree of authority in the hands of an unhealthy pastor yields massive casualties, like when someone who was physically abused starts spanking his own children. Spanking may be fine for other parents, but this particular man just can’t handle it. All that to say, a person should look deep inside before accepting a position vested with so much power/authority. Because what happens when the pastor himself is the abusive member who needs to be removed from the community? (Again, sadly, I’ve seen it happen more than once.)
I think of all the aspects of pastoral work, none is more counter-cultural than this one. I mean, who in our society thinks authority is a good thing anymore? What are rules, order, and discipline but effective tools of “the man� to arbitrarily impose his will on yours? Our culture has become so politically correct, so tolerant, so therapeutic, so Dr. Phil- and Oprah-ized that we can no longer accept any words of correction, rebuke or discipline. Those who dare to speak such words (and take subsequent actions to back them up!) are put down as “mean-spirited,� “hard-hearted,� or “judgmental.� Not that we should cater to our culture, but I think this “given� does raise the honest question of how today’s pastor can wisely, tactfully, and yet boldly administer discipline.
It might be helpful here to remind readers that the Shepherd disciplines his sheep, also: Prov 3.11-12/Heb. 12.5-6: “…because the Lord disciplines those he loves…� Spare the rod and spoil the sheep.

[corinthpastorbob]

Jamie, my thoughts correspond with yours.

Contemporary churches don’t do discipline well. I've asked myself why.

One answer for me is that discipline is for healthy churches. They are few and far between, especially when the definition of church health is sufficiently broad and balanced. Discipline in an unhealthy church counterproductive or worse, as Jamie noted in his parallel with an unhealthy family.

A second answer is that the discipline passages and processes are so easily abused. Paul’s clearest example (1 Cor. 5) is a situation extremely egregious and flagrant – open incest. Mat. 18 seems not to be so extreme, but this raises the other problem – what sins qualify for “confronting and removing…members of a congregation�? The ellipsis in my quote from p. 22 of the ms is the word “abusive.� That would probably rise to the level of discipline in my church, but what constitutes abuse? Obviously sexual or physical abuse. Spiritual abuse? Divisiveness?

A third answer is what Nathan Hatch calls in a 1989 book published by Yale "the democratization of American Christianity." From the beginning of our republic we created the world's first system of bottom-up polity. That creates a different dynamic for discipline.

Fourth, we have all learned to apply relativism to excuse our own sins. Paul’s list of discipline-worthy sins (1 Cor. 5:11) includes the person who is “sexually immoral,� “greedy,� “an idolater,� or “a drunkard.� When we talk about "discipline," we are usually pointing the figure at someone else's sexual sin, while generally ignoring sins of greed or substance abuse (or others) in ourselves or others. Even in the category of sexual sin, I am shocked at those who are vehement in their condemnation of homosexuality while highly tolerant of cohabitation, easy divorce, and the commercialization of lust among heterosexuals.

Finally, I think the NT gives itself mixed evidence. Paul sometimes adopts a “gently instruct� perspective (2 Tim 2:23-24) or a “wait and see� attitude (2 Tim 3:6-9). Or how about Jude, where the issues are serious, but the instruction is to “keep yourselves in God’s love,� “be merciful to those who doubt,� “snatch…and save� those you can, and “show mercy, mixed with fear� – without a clarion call to excommunicate the offenders? Why didn't he just quickly quote Mt. 18 as many evangelicals are prone to do?
Speaking of Jesus, what about Jesus’ parable about the wheat and tares? What was he saying about the rush to judgment?

I'm not sure what the answer is. Maybe I am only justifying the fact that we have some issues at my church that some would say clearly call for discipline. When we do "discipline," it's generally in private pastoral confrontation. I guess I'm more afraid of too much rod than I am of too little.